the fiscal cliff, raising tax rates on the richest americans for them is still off the table. >> the revenues on the table are coming from, guess who? the rich. there are ways to limit deductions, close loopholes, and have the same people pay more of their money to the federal government without raising tax rates, which we believe will harm our economy. if the president doesn't agree with our proposal and our outline, i think he's got an obligation to send one to the congress. a plan that can pass both chambers of congress. >> joining me now is former vermont governor howard dean and msnbc's krystal ball. governor dean, our treasury secretary is a very carwful speaker. when asked if they're prepared to go off the cliff, his first word was absolutely. there was nothing, nothing could be more clear that this administration means what they say about getting what they want at this point. >> yeah. the only problem is -- this is a little initially going to team like heresy, the truth is everybody needs to pay more taxes, not just the rich. that's a good start. we won't get out of the probl